Curse

TimTimTimma · Oct 04, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cnegurozka

I don't know what you are playing, but how would you like it if they make gvg 4v4? (just an example for you gvg folks out there)

It is really hard for me to respond to this without automatically going "thats ridiculous" because it sounds ridiculous and I dont wanna post the reasons because I know you posted it as an example. I understand where you are coming from taking something I really enjoy and changing it. They already have. Those of you that don't gvg don't really know how they did.

1 - lost a bodyguard, and an archer, added two knights that might aswel be placed in the open and not by the lord cause they never stay there long. Each bodyguard healed the hero, now its only one. These bodyguards offered VICIOUS aoe at vod together, but now only one is left to heal and deal dmg. The damage at vod was reduced on the NPC's heavily.
2- vod comes at 20 minutes and automatically is placed on u at 20 instead of being affected by the shout if in earshot. This means at 20 minutes we lost 25% health, and get hit with 25% EXTRA damage. E-Surges to 100dmg aoe at vod. It hurts alot.
3- the npc pathing has changed slightly. No longer do the NPC's ball up before they march. This prevents a catapult from killing them ALL in one big chunk, some npcs will almost always get through unless ur extremely lucky or u got agro at the gate to keep em in place.

There have been changes in the past also, but I can't remember. I think it is time HA got shooken up, and forming a pug in HA with 8 players is more difficult than people think. With 6 people now it won't be so hard. I can understand the HAers grief believe me, but its a change that seriously needed to happen.

NeHoMaR · Oct 04, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

I will love 6vs6, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

I know the first days will be a lot of vimways, etc, etc, etc., but that will be changing with time, I am sure the really pro people are already thinking in 6 men balanced builds for kick asses in 6vs6; don't worry, be happy

EDIT: Maybe they must change too 12vs12 to 8vs8 (or 9vs9 because the 3 portals)

nimble · Oct 04, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

...i dont really know what to make of this...on one hand yes i will admit ha is crap if ur unranked and not in a good allience as u are limited to vimway, boring and a crap way to earn fame. but if u get a good allience u can start taking ha more seriously and get better builds. i really dont like this 6v6 stuff. i mean i can see why they didnt make a seperate area for 6v6 competitive play. it will simply spread the game even thinner, for example "the jade quarry" completly pointless, now and again u will get one person there but never 8 so u can never play it. the same thing would have happened at HA.However people like HA the way it is 8v8 is fun and allows a lot of diversity things like the 3 monk bakline will become unusable and the vast majority of my guild is upset about this. i think it will spur some interest in HA for a few weeks but then it will die down and will probably cause more harm than good. imo anet is digging a hole for itself...

contra. · Oct 04, 2006, 07:35 PM // 19:35

The only way i will agree with the 6v6 ha move. is if they bring back 6 way burial mounds 5 way halls and 6 way scared earth and 3 way broken tower. etc.

allience · Oct 04, 2006, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by stav lad

This a bad move from anet. all we gona see is vim/smite and thumpers!!!!!
i agree on new maps but the builds gona be the same with 6v6
8v8 give more chance of different builds...
The only reason is was populour at the weekend is that u get double fame

So i may stop playing ha due to bordom

i completly agree with you man. HA is about to become stupid. there will be no more room for original builds because the 6 ppl setup is too limited. i'm frustrated that they're doing this instead of creating a new area were ppl can fight 6v6. it's not fair that only gvg players will get to play 8.
after this ridiculous change i'm certain HA will slowly die since most players that regularly play HA will get bored of the new vims and thump/smite that will be roaming around. what attracted ppl to HA is exacly the 8v8! it's like playing gvg but without all the stress of losing rating. and 8v8 also gives room to so many builds. specially now when nightfall comes out, there will be 10 goddamn professions! and in 6v6 u can't even get the chance to think an original build of any sort! of all the things, i EXPECTED some new pvp area with a party LARGER than 8. in any case not a shrinkage to 6.. seriously wtf is this.

i could give 100 more arguments why shrinking the party is a bad idea but i know anet is not ever gonna read this post or any other that doesn't agree with their stupid idea. all i can say is that anet just lost 1 more costumer for future chapters.

blackbane · Oct 04, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

ehhh i dont like 6v6, the two extra player slots destroy many awesome builds, like someone said before, HA is going to be dominated by gimmicks, but it wouldn't change anything because thats what it is now, i think that is not true because all tho people insist on Vimwaying iwaying smiting b spiking, its the smarter players that make counter balanced builds that gimmicks dont stand a chance against. But anyway, who cares, its not like anything we say makes a difference, they just dont care.

Boofhead · Oct 04, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbane

ehhh i dont like 6v6, the two extra player slots destroy many awesome builds,

But at the same time, many new awesome builds will be created.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbane

like someone said before, HA is going to be dominated by gimmicks, but it wouldn't change anything because thats what it is now, i think that is not true because all tho people insist on Vimwaying iwaying smiting b spiking, its the smarter players that make counter balanced builds that gimmicks dont stand a chance against. But anyway, who cares, its not like anything we say makes a difference, they just dont care.

That doesn't change with 6v6 either. Smarter players will still make the 'counter-balanced' builds.

LiamR · Oct 04, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

It isnt like you need HA to play, i mean, surely this isnt as bad as completely removing pve/pvp is it?

Oh, and yes, I kinda have 3 fame. o.O

Alleji · Oct 04, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by YesNo

Here is a recap of the opposing teams builds I would run into:
ViMway, ViMway, dual/triple smite, ViMway, dual/triple smite, condition build (melandru's poison, taint), ViMway

More like:

VIM, VIM, Smite, Degen, Smite, Degen, Degen, Degen, <lose>
VIM, VIM, Degen, Degen, Smite, Degen <lose>
Nubway, VIM, VIM, Degen, Smite, Smite, Degen, <lose>
VIM, VIM, etc.

You forgot that Vim doesn't get bast burial mounds.

EDIT: Not implying that I was a lone hero playing balanced. We ran mostly smite during the 6v6 weekend as well. Lawnmower ftw.

Trevor Reznik · Oct 04, 2006, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Each person in support/against this should state their rank and what builds they tend to run.

I support the change, I'm r9/r5 on two accounts, and prefer to run grab&go. Other than that I prefer hard offense builds with multiple wars and fire eles.

YesNo · Oct 04, 2006, 08:42 PM // 20:42

[QUOTE=Boofhead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by YesNo

Here's a recap of the current HA metagame: iway, iway, iway, bloodspike, iway, iway, bloodspike... you get the idea. Less skill slots means you'll have to be more thoughtful about your skill choices... or maybe you'll have to out-play the other team instead?

Or perhaps I like to play the early morning hours when the Koreans play, where its all balanced? Maybe you unranked PvE noobs can stay out of HA and go run droks, and leave the real players with what we have come to love to play.

And for Trevor Reznik's point: I am a rank 10 player who has only played guild wars for the last 8 months strictly for HA. I hate PvE and RA, now that HA is going to be like TA, I might have to find a new game to play.

Aejorii · Oct 04, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

I think it's the end for decent balance builds in tombs. Why do I think this? Well, a good balance build in a 8v8 setting is already cram packed with counter-y goodness that is all-in-all "balance" in terms of offense, defense, and mitigation. So now you've shrunk the balance builds to a 6v6 setting to a point where you're running below barebones in dealing with opposing team builds. Imo, you just don't have enough skills in your build to oppose the variations of other teams out there (48 skills vs 64) and in the end, running gimmicks just seems more efficient in winning.

supaet · Oct 04, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

How about you all just stop arguing and get ANET TO OFFER BOTH MODES!!!!!!!!

=HT=Ingram · Oct 04, 2006, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Since the Realm of torment and the underworld are connected in some ways via the mists, I would assume that Nightfall will bring some new maps into the Ascent process.

BTW, this should also effect other portals into the mists as well, Meaning the Temple of Ages, Zin Ku Corridor, and the Tomb of Primevil Kings ruins... So expect that SOME effects of Nightfall will spread back to other chapters, Even if you DON'T Have Nightfall added to your account.

Looking forward to it...

=HT=Ingram · Oct 04, 2006, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Oh and when you see the new change I think you will like it... Its not as bad as you guys are thinking... think more 12 v 12 style and you will understand why the change to parties of 6... THis is intended to force a bit of a mix up of things FINALLY in the HALL process.

The game evolves even if the players can't seem too...

allience · Oct 04, 2006, 09:09 PM // 21:09

offering both modes would be the best idea ever. but anet won't do that because they are lazy and once they pocket their money, they don't care.

and i agree with Aejorii, we'll be witnessing the end of balanced/original builds. o well, time to go cap air of enchantment on my monk and quit this non-sense once i hit r12. i'm quite sure the ppl supporting this change are either low ranked or r9+ ex iway players. no offence meant, just stating some facts.

Hippster · Oct 04, 2006, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Ugh I might get used to this change. As I play more into the 6v6 I might like it more. Maybe Arenanet could have a special weekend 8v8 Heros Ascent a few months later.

mrdbeau · Oct 04, 2006, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Wow, so many people get so emotional whenever a big change in the game is rolled out. I find it very interesting that many of the arguments against 6v6 are arguments that can already be applied to 8v8 HA as it exists now. Let's just take a few minutes and think about some things.

1) 6v6 will become plagued by gimmick builds. Ok, well, for the most part, it is already. IWAY drove away many HA players, and Vimway et. al. has made the situation even worse. At least with 6v6, gimmick builds will be much easier to counter due to decreased versatility that can be carried in a given team. If smite takes over, how long is it going to be before everyone runs a smite counter build? Not long. Now, I do slightly worry that with 6v6, a rock, paper, scissors setup may occur; however, I believe there will be a much larger pool of builds to choose from with 6v6. This will additionally be dependent to some extent on what "new maps" and what kind of setup is brought about by this change.

2) All the time I've put into HA is going to be completely wasted and irrelevant by this change. Let's look at that. What exactly does rank denote (or rather, what is it supposed to?)? Theoretically, it indicates someone who has a lot of experience with pvp. But does it really? Of course not. All rank really denotes anymore is how much HA you've played and nothing more. If you think your rank really means something anymore, then you're delusional. Since IWAY came around, rank is largely irrelevant and I've played with plenty of terrible R9+ people. Additionally, let's assume rank does mean you're a good pvp player. If you're truly a good pvp player, then adapting to 6v6 or 4v4 or 18v18 should not be much of a problem for you. Things will change, surely, but a good pvp player is a good pvp player. It is necessary to at least be familiar with the HA maps/GvG maps to play in those formats, but if you've played more than 1 or 2 matches, that should not be a real issue, and understanding/learning the new map and setup cannot be all that difficult.

3) Enjoyment factor. I can speak from personal experience and empathize with those who used to enjoy HA and hate it now. I played HA a lot when the game first came up and basically until the time IWAY became very popular. I've basically stopped playing since you were forced to run IWAY, VIMway, or spike of some kind if you wanted to get a PUG group that didn't lose to the Zaishen. Many people feel that way. My guild used to HA and a lot of our members would HA, but many have stopped entirely in the last 6 months. Additionally, the number of people overall at HA at any given time has noticeably decreased over a period of time. On top of all that, matches will move much faster, and it will be a much faster paced game.

4) "High level competition." Quite a few people have made comments alluding to the fact that HA is so much more competitive than your average pvp arena. BS. Valid counterarguments to this idea have been presented, so I won't spend much time on it, but the competition in HA is sometimes decent, and sometimes crap. If you really want to make pvp hard on yourself, try playing some AB on the Kurzicks side in the early afternoon... if your l33t team of 4 can overcome the absolute stupidity of the other 8, then you'll know just how good you really are. Now, unfortunately, I doubt 6v6 will be any less "elitist" or "competitive" than HA is now, because let's face it, anytime you are winning any kind of reward (i.e. fame), people are going to be tools. Additionally, you are going to still have the r9+ only groups and so on, but by virtue of many more people playing HA (which, there absolutely WILL be), it will be much easier to get a PUG unranked group or a low ranked group.

Overall, this is going to really increase the enjoyment of people in HA and will bring many new people into the fold. I don't understand why people who play HA frequently right now would not want to have a lot of new people (or even old people like me that used to play and don't anymore) brought back into the fold. Well, I do know, actually, it's because as we've seen from many people's posts here, if you're a new person, you're a n00b, you don't know what you're talking about, you have no right to comment on HA, and so on.

I'm not going to call all the people who don't like this change or think it's going to be horrible "whiners," as that doesn't contribute much to the discussion; however, I will say that you need to stop, calm down, and just think it through for a few minutes. There is no way this can be a bad change, there just isn't. Additionally, saying things like "I'm not going to buy Nightfall now," or "I'm quitting GW because of this," and so on really makes you look immature and shortsighted, so just think about that.

And, before someone says I don't know jack about anything, I can assure you I've played plenty of pvp, including gvg, RA/TA, HA, AB, and so on. Look me up in-game if you really want to and we'll talk more.

Aejorii · Oct 04, 2006, 09:10 PM // 21:10

I guess all this speculation is nonsense anyways

It should be fun, although I'm not sure how well I will adjust to 6v6.

Hippster · Oct 04, 2006, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Well Spoken, I assume people will get used to it eventually.